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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Topic: GRIEVANCES + COMPLAINTS
    Posted: 06 October 2011 at 6:32am
This thread is for reporting unprofessional behavior for both artists and clients.
This is only meant to help PJ members make their own decisions and do not necessarily mean Pixeljoint has verified these reports beyond some basics.
• Post your grievance here and provide link to project thread and member profile page.
• Give details of incident for PJ staff review. If valid the offending party will be listed in the official list below and if needed banning of the member.
• If you wish to report but not to be publicly listed as a reporter then PM any Mod with your issue. We do prefer transparency and prefer everyone list their name, tho.
• Clients and artists reported here are always welcome to state their side of the story or clarify any incident.

Report List
Client /Artist Handle
Details Action Taken
Thread Reported By
Date
EMG100 Did not pay for commissioned work Started this Grievances and complaint thread. \o/ here Mr Special 7 October 2011
Joshua Astorian email Did not deliver assets which were paid for

here here here
Quemist, many others
11 November 2011







































































 





Edited by jalonso - 14 November 2011 at 10:33pm
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Clest
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Quote Clest Replybullet Posted: 15 November 2011 at 8:49am
Thankyou for this wonderful and useful topic!
Here goes:

name of the client: Fresh
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13129
case:
Made some work for him, finished saturday and sent to him,with no reply I contacted him again and got the exact following answer: "Yes, I have received, I found someone else for the job. I can not accept yours work in comparison, really sorry! :("

Honestly that is not how you deal in business.
First he should have waited and if he thought I was taking took long he should have contacted me to ask how thiongs are going or for an estimated delivery time.
Second he should have contacted me as soon as he found someone else.
Third if not happy with my work he should solve things with me first, as I am always willing to edit and change my work to fit the client´s needs and expectations, which I assume people who worked with me can say for my patience and effort.

Honestly I feel betrayed since I was not informed in time, wasted time and effort which I could have devoted to some other tasks, that was unprofessional and I can´t say someone with that atitude can be trusted. Saying sorry won´t bring back my wasted time.

Hope everyone stay aware of this before working with him :(

name of the client: Qemist
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13021
case:
Somwhere around that, he hired to finish his mech sprite which in turn was a biogger task than expected as yje mech he made needed some corrections, this took me a week of working and him directing, then he disappears and comes back with that: "Hello Ceci,

sorry for not replying to your mails. Right now I'm looking into a possible scam by someone who was helping me alongside you and I somehow lost trust in working with people on the net. Unlike you I did pay him up in advance and my apologees for not comming out clear as soon as possible. Hence my few harsh emails I sent a few days ago and not replying to your latest emails and works. I did tell you do hold it off for now and not to work on, and I hope you didnt waste your time.

If we decide to continue I am willing to pay up a advance (50%) but right now I want to sort out this scam.

Again, my apologees..

Thanks,"

Refarding have warned me before to hold on things, which he only did after my second day working, he never mentioned the real issue, instead hge came like that "If you arent able to do it please dont waste your time but let me know. I hate to waste your time and not be satisfied in the end. The air shaft thing on the "shoulder" looks really cool together with the lines you did on same the thing."

By that I assume that I should only have stopped if I wouldn´t be able to complete the task, which on his last e mail pasted above, he reconized I could and that he was harsh in doubting my skills from first drafts.

I got everything on my e mail if prints are needed for either cases.
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Matwek
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Quote Matwek Replybullet Posted: 21 March 2012 at 8:31am
I forgot this topic was here, sorry.

name of the client: disimon
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13841&PN=1

CASE:

I just thought I better warn anyone working on this game about the employers. This is the first time I’ve ever had to leave negative feedback after being active on these forums for several years now, I may not post too often in the rest of the forum but I get plenty of requests for work from my profile (http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11063) and believe I am very professional when dealing with clients. If I didn’t I wouldn’t be able to afford to eat.

That being said I was chosen to work on the tilesets and layout of this game and produced these two mock ups for the menu screen and main gameplay screen.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/matwek/TrackMockUp.png

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/matwek/FlagMockUp.png

At which point I was offered a so called contract and statement of work and went on to produce the tileset needed to create this full-sized screen along with menu selection including all 20 flags from the G20, an animated highlight flash to show country selection and a full font for in game text.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/matwek/ScreenShot.png

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/matwek/CountrySelection.png

It was at this point that I was informed that my work was “unusable” because…

“Flags were not their top priority” – even though the Statement of Work had no such priority listing and flags weren’t’ the only thing I produced.

“Not happy with the samples” – Even though they saw the original samples long before I started updating them and increasing them in size
On numerous occasions I asked for feedback on my work and if I was going in the right direction and each time I either received no reply or got another question rather than an answer to my own.
Whilst I do believe they feel like they are a professional set up and do have work to prove that is the case, there attitude towards me has been very unprofessional.
Basically if you can give them exactly what they want, when they want it, and how they want it without being actually told then you’ll probably be paid.
As for me I’m now down $2000 as I got dropped from this project after a months’ worth of correspondence and work.
If anyone might have a use for the tiles I do have then drop me an email (matwek@hotmail.com) and we might be able to work out a discount on the stuff I have.

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Victor Rojo
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Quote Victor Rojo Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2012 at 7:13am
why don´t make the same forum but with recommended/reliable clients/artist?
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Halffish
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Quote Halffish Replybullet Posted: 10 August 2012 at 1:49pm
You guys should ALWAYS be dealing with contracts, for any amount of paid work. For both artist and the client. Perhaps it would be more professional to start a thread about how to go about freelance work rather than a complaint thread listing people's information?

Edited by Halffish - 10 August 2012 at 1:50pm
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stevefrank
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Quote stevefrank Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2012 at 5:08am
Originally posted by Victor Rojo

why don´t make the same forum but with <span id="result_" ="short_text" lang="en"><span ="hps">recommended</span>/<span ="hps">reliable</span></span> clients/artist?


interesting idea..
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Quote Hound Replybullet Posted: 15 September 2012 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Clest


name of the client: Qemist
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13021
case:
Somwhere around that, he hired to finish his mech sprite which in turn was a biogger task than expected as yje mech he made needed some corrections, this took me a week of working and him directing, then he disappears and comes back with that: "Hello Ceci,

sorry for not replying to your mails. Right now I'm looking into a possible scam by someone who was helping me alongside you and I somehow lost trust in working with people on the net. Unlike you I did pay him up in advance and my apologees for not comming out clear as soon as possible. Hence my few harsh emails I sent a few days ago and not replying to your latest emails and works. I did tell you do hold it off for now and not to work on, and I hope you didnt waste your time.

If we decide to continue I am willing to pay up a advance (50%) but right now I want to sort out this scam.

Again, my apologees..

Thanks,"

Refarding have warned me before to hold on things, which he only did after my second day working, he never mentioned the real issue, instead hge came like that "If you arent able to do it please dont waste your time but let me know. I hate to waste your time and not be satisfied in the end. The air shaft thing on the "shoulder" looks really cool together with the lines you did on same the thing."

By that I assume that I should only have stopped if I wouldn´t be able to complete the task, which on his last e mail pasted above, he reconized I could and that he was harsh in doubting my skills from first drafts.

I got everything on my e mail if prints are needed for either cases.

I had almost an identical experience with Qemist/Leendert Oomen on the same project. Same strange communication, stories, and lack of payment. He apparently had a few of us working at once.
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burnz
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Quote burnz Replybullet Posted: 23 September 2012 at 9:42pm
Member: joblea

While talking to this member for some paid work on sprite animation and being told $130 upfront per animation i sent him the following email

>>>"i'm sorry but this isn't going to work out when you say its $15/h then
>>> charge $130 for one animation
>>>
>>> I guess you're just out of my price range, sorry to waste your time."

Which made him ask what price i tthought was fair i respectfully replied with this as i was embarrassed by the size of my budget as i'm still a uni student

>> Really its fine, i'd feel bad talking you down from $130 per animation
>> to the sort of prices im looking at.
>>
>> Like i said sorry it hasn't worked out

After this he started to send me abusive email from the hours of 12:10am last night and i'm still receiving them now at 12:30pm

Some of my favorite received e-mails include:
>>>WTF!!! YOU GO TO HELL LOSER!!!!

and

>>>HAHAHA LOSER! NO ARTIST WILL WORK FOR A BIG A-HOLE LIKE YOU HAHA GO f**k YOUR MOTHER ..HAHA

This experience is just one of the a few iv had while on this site trying to offer paid work to the community. It has reflected poorly on PixelJoint as a whole as well as its level of unprofessionalism.

I really hope my experiences are unique from others

Edited by burnz - 23 September 2012 at 9:49pm
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DawnBringer
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Quote DawnBringer Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2012 at 2:28am
"It has reflected poorly on PixelJoint as a whole as well as its level of unprofessionalism."

Not at all. What do you expect when you hire some random lurker without a gallery or established PJ-history.
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Quote burnz Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2012 at 4:44am
I was linked with a portfolio and details of past works. Like i said it was one of a few incidents.

Others included someone producing something completely different than what was asked for then emailing me drunk and demanding payment when i didn't even agree to start the project and sure as hell didn't agree on what he decided to produce out of the guidelines

Others take well over a day to respond to messages on the site as well as answer emails when i respond to them within the hour (most the time instantly).

If there are any pixel artist on this site with a professional attitude i would love to meet them.
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Qemist
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Quote Qemist Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2012 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by Hound


I had almost an identical experience with Qemist/Leendert Oomen on the same project. Same strange communication, stories, and lack of payment. He apparently had a few of us working at once.


I've actually paid people who put out decent work I asked for. One of these is actually Dawnbringer.

When looking at your website I can remember the images but when looking back in my gmail I cant find anything you created for me at all.

I'm dutch and not a native. Communication isnt always easy so maybe thats why we gave up working together. I've paid various artists the amounts they have asked me for. Too bad theres these ghost stories around from artist that dont put in the time and efford you expect them to do.

Other then that as a salesadvisor for kitchens I dont have all the time in the world to reply on emails. I work from monday to sunday and only reply when im off work in the night hours.

If you really finished the product I would have paid. And since I dont see any product and cant remember seeing any I dont think you have?

My point is: If you go and buy a car you're not gonna pay for one that cant even start its engine. If you read Clest his post you can clearly see I pointed out that he probably couldnt fulfill my needs. To be less harsh and to give him direction of what kind of detailed work I was after I told him what I liked about his art.

With all the respect I'm sorry if it didnt work out. Theres quite a few freelancers I have great communications with and have paid for various jobs. Both parties are extremely happy and these ghost stories really make me more then sad.

You can follow the META4 PROJECT here incase you have any doubts. I never used any art from these two guys either.


Also Joshua Astorian didnt deliver me completed work at first. I've actually been in touch with him later and he has done a few commissions for me. Only after he finished them I paid and hes a great artist with great skills. Too bad I didnt have much faith in him before and feel bad for reporting him now.

Hes still reported here and I know why. Communication is hard for him. Hes in the same boat I'm about to be in.


Edited by Qemist - 27 September 2012 at 11:38pm
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Matwek
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Quote Matwek Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2012 at 12:34am
I've worked for you before and I've had similar problems to other people. I do some trial pieces, make loads of tweaks and then when I start discussing quotes you disappear.
To be honest it's not doing the samples for free that bothers me, I do it quite often and anything I don't get paid for I usually use at a later date, it's the lack of professionalism that annoys people.
When you finally got back in contact you said you had stopped replying because you didn't want to pay my prices, rather than just emailing me to tell me that or try to negotiate. So then i said i could drop the prices if i also drop the quality a little and you emailed back to say you were happy to pay for decent work... A complete contradiction to what you had said earlier.

That fact that this is the second or third time you've posted for help on these boards for the same project is enough to put anyone off.
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Qemist
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Quote Qemist Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2012 at 10:46pm
I'm gonna ask my artists that actually put out decent work that didnt charge for sample art I didnt like to post in my META4 topic. 
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Matwek
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Quote Matwek Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2012 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Qemist

I'm gonna ask my artists that actually put out decent work that didnt charge for sample art I didnt like to post in my META4 topic. 

You're missing the point here.
I didn't charge for sample art, I did it for free but the moment I brought up the subject of money you disappeared and didn't reply to emails.

Whats the point in doing samples for someone to get a job if you don't even know what you're going to be paid if you're successful? Thats like turning up to a job interview with no idea what the salary is going to be.

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that have worked for you and things have gone well but if they don't go well you have to treat potential cleients with a bit more respect otherwise you end up having the problem you have now.

And for anyone interested here is the (free) sample I did. I was trying to match the style of the purple floor so made up a few basic tiles for which I could add extra detail to.

I never expected to get paid unless I was offered the job. I just didn't expect to be ignored.
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Qemist
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Quote Qemist Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2012 at 3:05pm
The point is that I allready have admitted earlier that I have been a bit sloppy at some point. Wich is because of my job and I should have emailed you with a sorry you didnt make it. The payment just made it seem like you felt you got the job.

Concluding that this subject keeps being brought up and right now I have jobs on hold because I want to pay someone before bringing in new art. I cant have anyone feel like they are not recieving a payment.

Again my apologee for not sending emails. I have been searching for good contacts and communication aswell as improving my own.
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Quote Tikky Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2012 at 10:16am
Actually , thanks for joshua, I was about to maybe talk with him for a job. Thanks for the info i will just skip it
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Quote montonero Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2012 at 12:36pm
Looks like Joshua Astorian is a seasoned scammer.
I have to admit that I paid some money to him, and haven't received anything.

His latest contact details:
Joshua Astorian
Email: joshuaastorian@yahoo.com
Alternate email: joshuastorian@gmail.com
Skype: joshastorian
AIM: joshastorian
MSN Messenger: joshuaastorian@hotmail.com
GTalk: joshastorian@gmail.com

The reason I fell for it was that I did a quick search for his name + email (which he probably changed) and that did not lead me to this page, but to his linkedin profile. For some reason Adam Tierney of Wayforward left Joshua a positive recommendation knowing that Joshua is a fraudster (see http://www.wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=8561.0). Because of that recommendation I trusted him.
Also, his linkedin profile incorrectly states that he still works as a freelancer for Wayforward, but that's not the case. I've now contacted them asking to amend this information.
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Clest
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Quote Clest Replybullet Posted: 12 November 2012 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by Qemist

The point is that I allready have admitted earlier that I have been a bit sloppy at some point. Wich is because of my job and I should have emailed you with a sorry you didnt make it. The payment just made it seem like you felt you got the job.Concluding that this subject keeps being brought up and right now I have jobs on hold because I want to pay someone before bringing in new art. I cant have anyone feel like they are not recieving a payment.Again my apologee for not sending emails. I have been searching for good contacts and communication aswell as improving my own.



The problem for me is that I wasted a whole week working for you and only after that whole period you come to say my work was not good for you despite having said before that things were getting close to what you wanted, more than you disappearing it was the lame excuse you mentioned that "someone had scammed you so you couldn´t trust anyone to pay" now that is not my problem and it is not fair to screw others cause someone elswe screwed you.

Also regarding my work: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10246
I believe that even I am not the best spriter in the world my work is quite decent, now take note that to reach those results some of my clients had to be patient and direct me and criticize and ask for changes, which I was doing for you even with your rude comments and remarks, so yeah, on top of time wasted you gave me a week of stress for zero payment, that is WRONG and don´t say otherwise.
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Quote Qemist Replybullet Posted: 09 December 2012 at 11:40pm
Dear Clest,

I have never been rude in any of my emails. All of the emails sent to you I kept and I just read them back.

As a artist you have to listen to your client. Im sorry to tell you but for some reason I felt like you didnt listen or even tried to understand me.

You where going to improve the mech I concepted. At first things seemed to go the right direction until it only got worse and worse because you didnt listen.

The end result made by someone else is exactly what we needed for around same price you where asking without too many issues what so ever.

And please.. if that what you sent me on the mail costs you a week then hiring you as a artist would cost me a fortune..

This is you trying to improve my art (you drew a few lines on the body shapes and changed a few colours.. thats all)

Here is the improved art we use today and this was what we where aiming for

Please stop to bring me and the META4 project down by bringing up the fact that you didnt get the job.

We have paid artists many times before and just like all the others you did some small work to audition / qualify for a job and you didnt make it.

Better luck next time!


Edited by Qemist - 09 December 2012 at 11:44pm
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Quote Raju Replybullet Posted: 07 March 2013 at 11:44pm
I think it would be better if pixeljoint or these who already doing some of the job could make a SOP (standar operation procedure) of how client and artist should progress on these kind of work rather than pointing who to blame..

Hopefully it could be a guideline for both client and artist to minimize misscom or scammer..
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Quote ulfus Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2013 at 8:38pm
When I first started commissioning work I would pay the entire amount upfront. Then I had an immature artist not read the details of one of my requests and then refused to redo it, oh well it was only a $75USD loss(He created an image of a modern city with skyscrapers instead of a fantasy village :/)

I pay half before and half on completion now.
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