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Theoden
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Quote Theoden Replybullet Topic: Psychicer Alien
    Posted: 02 March 2012 at 4:45am
Hi guys, this is my latest work and it was rejected to get into the gallery.

Any crtis and comments are welcome!




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Alex Pang
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Quote Alex Pang Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2012 at 5:18am
Add texture make it more interesting!
here a fast edit:
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cure
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Quote cure Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2012 at 9:39am
If you want to keep it simple, add AA and fix the jaggies. If you want it to have a little more visual interest, you could add textures (cloth, skin, metal).
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Theoden
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Quote Theoden Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2012 at 4:21am
Thank you guys for the feedback.

There's more than that meets the eye with this piece.

This was sort of a test.

Actually this piece is not pixelart, its
a 3D model I have made using flat-shaded technique. The color information is kept only per polygon and one polygon can only have one color. It has no 2D editing on it. All you see is rendered in my 3D application.

I wanted to see if I could convince you guys who are experienced in pixelart that this 3D image is actually a pixelart. And it seems that I have managed to do that. My main aim was to be able get this piece on the gallery without any 2D editing. Most likely I could have achieved that too by further 3D editing and detailing but wanted to explain what's actually going on.

Sorry if this causes any sort of inconvenience guys.
Thanks for checking out.

Here's a 360 rendering of my model:



Edited by Theoden - 04 March 2012 at 4:21am
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Quote 9_6 Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2012 at 6:11am
You could've gotten away with rendering the whole thing in a small size instead of making a large detail render in which you can even make out faces but probably not without jaggies due to the nature of this.



Edited by 9_6 - 04 March 2012 at 6:46am
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Theoden
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Quote Theoden Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2012 at 12:35pm
Yes I agree with you.
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cure
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Quote cure Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2012 at 1:44pm
It certainly retains the look of a low-poly model, it could pass as bad pixelart but I don't understand why you would want it to. Whatever the method, the attention to the pixels clearly isn't there, so it didn't have much of a chance of sneaking into the gallery. An experiment that imitates more careful pixel placement seems more profitable. A little bit of cleanup on top of the method 9_6 mentioned would probably look fairly intentional.
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Alex Pang
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Quote Alex Pang Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2012 at 2:14pm
Have you seen the works of kenneth fejer? you should check it out! here: http://www.kennethfejer.com/lowpoly.html
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Theoden
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Quote Theoden Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2012 at 2:16pm
Yep, I know him. He's really good with stylistic low-poly stuff.
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Quote baah Replybullet Posted: 04 March 2012 at 2:43pm
"I wanted to see if I could convince you guys who are experienced in pixelart that this 3D image is actually a pixelart. And it seems that I have managed to do that."
 
Well, wasn't your work rejected?
Alex and cure did not say it was pixel art, but how it could turn out to be!
Nice lowpoly model btw!
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Theoden
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Quote Theoden Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 3:17am
I believe they made thier comments thinking this was a pixelart.
This is a pixelart forum and they commented regarding improvements in pixel art form without any doubt. If they knew this was not pixelart they would have pointed it out for sure. And let's ask them. What did you think guys?

And lots of other pixel art is rejected to enter the gallery. I have made several pixel art that were rejected. Rejection to enter the gallery is not a criteria to what you say. It doesn't mean that a rejected work is non-pixelart.

Thanks!


Edited by Theoden - 05 March 2012 at 3:22am
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Theoden
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Quote Theoden Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 3:33am
Originally posted by cure

It certainly retains the look of a low-poly model, it could pass as bad pixelart but I don't understand why you would want it to. Whatever the method, the attention to the pixels clearly isn't there, so it didn't have much of a chance of sneaking into the gallery. An experiment that imitates more careful pixel placement seems more profitable. A little bit of cleanup on top of the method 9_6 mentioned would probably look fairly intentional.


I love both lowpoly and pixelart. This piece is done for a challenge for another site. I noticed that it can be faked as pixelart and just wanted to test if it works. To fake pixelart wasn't my intention when I was modelling it.

This model was not done for that purpose so it lacks most of the details that a pixelart should have. But I can really make this so close to pixelart with a few hours of work that most won't even notice it's 3D. It is just an idea to blend pixelart and lowpoly together so one can have the look of pixelart and ease of 3D animating in one pot.

If I hadn't told that the image is not pixelart I believe other users would have continued to comment on this piece as pixelart as two of you have done already.
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Quote 9_6 Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 7:00am
Yeah you can use pre-rendered stuff as a base for animation/pixel art.
with some post processing, you can even get dynamically placed limited color palettes with hue shifts etc going that are indescernible from pixels placed by hand save for occasional jaggies.
No, if you're just using plain big vector-esque clusters, there is no way to say for sure that this isn't a 3d model except if you make edges too appearant (which you kinda do, its still very low poly).
 
So what is the discussion value here?
Are you gonna do something with this now or not?
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Quote yrizoud Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 7:17am
In fact, when you choose an angle that has the least number of pixel artifacts, you already use a "pixel art" eye. It's the same as when you use a 'line' tool and adjust the final angle depending on harmonious pixel angles.

By the way, you're not the first who blends techniques : For the game Iji, Daniel Remar designed all characters as animated 3D low-poly models. He rendered them at the required angles, and then did the pixel touch-up (such as Iji's hair). The result is a consistent animation; for example the floating bikes are awesome when they turn around.
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Quote Theoden Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 7:32am
Originally posted by 9_6

Yeah you can use pre-rendered stuff as a base for animation/pixel art.
with some post processing, you can even get dynamically placed limited color palettes with hue shifts etc going that are indescernible from pixels placed by hand save for occasional jaggies.
No, if you're just using plain big vector-esque clusters, there is no way to say for sure that this isn't a 3d model except if you make edges too appearant (which you kinda do, its still very low poly).
 
So what is the discussion value here?
Are you gonna do something with this now or not?


Well as I said earlier I did it just because of curiosity. Other than that I don't think there's any discussion value.

On the other hand I will continue to work on the 3D model and improve it.


Edited by Theoden - 05 March 2012 at 7:32am
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Quote cure Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 7:37am
Indigo has also done something similar.

Like I said, there's nothing inherently wrong with using this stuff as base, it's just a matter of whether or not you find this an efficient method of working. The comments didn't look like they assumed anything particular about the creation process until this point, just that what you presented needed a lot of pixel-level work. You can leave it unrefined like this:

and get plenty of comments about needing to clean it up, or you could, as you say, spend a few hours and get something like this:

Which is a perfectly acceptable method of making pixel art.


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Quote Theoden Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 7:38am
Originally posted by yrizoud

In fact, when you choose an angle that has the least number of pixel artifacts, you already use a "pixel art" eye. It's the same as when you use a 'line' tool and adjust the final angle depending on harmonious pixel angles.

By the way, you're not the first who blends techniques : For the game Iji, Daniel Remar designed all characters as animated 3D low-poly models. He rendered them at the required angles, and then did the pixel touch-up (such as Iji's hair). The result is a consistent animation; for example the floating bikes are awesome when they turn around.


Yes, I have seen the game's trailer before but I didn't notice it was done with blending techniques.

I am pretty sure this idea was executed several times before I did it.
Just I can't find much example to this kind of work.
I mean most of the lowpoly-pixelart blended works use texturing (UV-Mapping) in very low resolutions like 16x16 or 8x8. But the alien model has no textures. So I can set the color information per polygon. Much like a pixel that can only have one color value at a time.
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Quote Theoden Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 7:43am
Originally posted by cure

Indigo has also done something similar.

Like I said, there's nothing inherently wrong with using this stuff as base, it's just a matter of whether or not you find this an efficient method of working. The comments didn't look like they assumed anything particular about the creation process until this point, just that what you presented needed a lot of pixel-level work. You can leave it unrefined like this:

and get plenty of comments about needing to clean it up, or you could, as you say, spend a few hours and get something like this:

Which is a perfectly acceptable method of making pixel art.




Very nice examples. Thanks for sharing.
What did you think Cure? Did you know from the beginning that it was 3D when you commented? I am just curious.

I wish I had waited a little longer before saying that the image is 3D.

Don't get me wrong guys, I am not like: "I could have fooled you all with my badass skills!".

It's not even a new thing


Edited by Theoden - 05 March 2012 at 7:49am
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yrizoud
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Quote yrizoud Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 8:50am
Another example that I noticed is in the cartoon series 'Ghost In The Shell : Stand-Alone Complex'. The cartoon is traditional animation, but in several occurrences I noticed the vehicles (cars, trucks and mechas) were perfectly shaded even during rotations.
It's well-used when you don't notice it. Example : The Fuchikoma on the right


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Theoden
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Quote Theoden Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 9:06am
Originally posted by yrizoud

Another example that I noticed is in the cartoon series 'Ghost In The Shell : Stand-Alone Complex'. The cartoon is traditional animation, but in several occurrences I noticed the vehicles (cars, trucks and mechas) were perfectly shaded even during rotations.
It's well-used when you don't notice it. Example : The Fuchikoma on the right




Yes this method is called "cell-shading". And it works really nice with anime since it looks like exactly like a cartoon shading.
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Quote Vegard Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 11:52am
It would be interesting to know if you could do some kind of hinting (as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font_hinting) to add details to the rendered models. I think the use of 3D models to create "pixel art" is especially interesting in games where you do it on the fly instead of rendering (and maybe touching up) everything beforehand.

Cel shading is obviously a very good starting point; does anybody have any examples of low-res cel-shaded images (using limited palettes)?
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Quote shampoop Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 12:45pm
Here is another example of using a 3d model as a base.



From here
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cure
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Quote cure Replybullet Posted: 05 March 2012 at 4:20pm
I definitely noticed the low-poly aesthetics, but assumed it was made in a 2-dimensional method. I wouldn't say that's because it necessarily looked more pixel than poly, but rather that it was much more sensible to assume you made it the easy way rather than create a 3d model and take a screen cap. It was way below your skill level though so I wasn't sure why you were submitting it.
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Quote Theoden Replybullet Posted: 06 March 2012 at 12:52am
Originally posted by cure

I definitely noticed the low-poly aesthetics, but assumed it was made in a 2-dimensional method. I wouldn't say that's because it necessarily looked more pixel than poly, but rather that it was much more sensible to assume you made it the easy way rather than create a 3d model and take a screen cap. It was way below your skill level though so I wasn't sure why you were submitting it.


I see, thanks for the explanation.
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