NOTE: While easily discovered the pixelart and images shown are not meant to be an offense to anyone and are simply the first random examples that illustrate a point. If you have a piece shown here and you wish it were not. Please send us an alternative image that illustrates the same point.

This is just information but can also be a discussion on the subject NOT the members or their art. Anything personal will not be tolerated here, thx.

This is the current Pixeljoint view on the subject of Rips, traces and to some extent index paint/color reductions, which is capable of changing if you can clearly show and demonstrate why it should be different.

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RIPS

This is a RIP: These are reportable and will get your ass ...


original art by X   submitted to gallery by Y

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TRACING

This is a trace and NOT a rip. The focus here is pixelart technique and subject matter is not that important. Reporting these is fruitless because the original is not pixelart. However reference link should be given and if a member fails to do so you can ask for it... and should.

pixelart   pixelart over original reference

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DUPLICATION

This is a Grid based pixelart and is not traced nor ripped but merely duplicated. In this case the subject matter means nothing. Execution is everything. You must be very careful when these examples come up. They are usually from demosceners and you have an equal risk of being embarrassed as you are to have a legitimate claim. Give the benefit of the doubt and be respectful. No harm sitting in the queue till resolved.
pixelart   scan of the grid and the original painting showing colors.

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LINEART

These are NOT ripped nor traced, simply colored as practice. If you don't find this a problem then straight out tracing should not be a problem for you either.

The creator of the original lineart must be credited, and also must have given permission for it to be used as such. Sometimes, for example, WIP's can be posted in the forums that are only lineart, someone could use this as a lineart base when it was not intended as such.

SPECIAL NOTE: 'Dolls' are always tricky because dolls may come from some other forum or site always should have the link to the base. These often contain the flesh colored, or eyes, hair, etc. in and without a link we are unable to determine what is made by the artist, so a link to the base is required. Some dollers do create original pixelart so be repectful when asking. Remember they do bite ;)
artist X gives lineart freely artist K colors artist L colors

artist C makes lineart   artist P colors his way and alters the lineart artist W colors his way and traces the lineart

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TEMPLATES

These are not RIPs nor traces because templates are given and they are for a project. Notice that in artist Js 'pixelart' over 60% of the pixels are from the template. The reason it is OK is because it belongs as part of a project with its own rules. The same applies to the second example.
template artist J uses template to create

template   artist G uses project template to create

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REDUCTIONS

This is a REDUCTION which equals a trace and a rip and even worse because it violates the OPAAT figurative rule. Sadly, this makes us all look bad.
The reduction occurs by automated application features or filters (the color reduction, i.e. making a jpeg into an indexed version of the picture) that are then to make it worse, 'touched up' with pixels (the tracing). Not an actual rip but the result can be called because the pixelart is questionable.

original image the "pixelart" the "WIP" process the reduction


Edited by Larwick - 28 March 2008 at 5:39am

Sprite edits, you mean?
(too bad I don't have the EPIC RIP image at hand :P


Edited by Metaru - 27 March 2008 at 10:42pm

i know this might sound funny but is a reduction like getting a photograph then resizing+recolouring it??/ i don't get it....

Agreed B.O.B, but let's say a game company comes to Pj looking for a teammember. This person needs technichal help only so a 'colorist' is important and not a creator.
To be good at coloring you must practice, other's donated lineart and tracing is just a base on which to work from. This is real life procedure.

I think the distinction is to not place a 'PJ gallery worthiness sticker' but to judge each submission to the submitter's gallery and determine progress.
All progress is good therefore OK for an individual's gallery.

We often ask WIP posters to practice techniques to improve. Well coloring and tracing and grid painting helps with this when the focus is pixelart techniques and not design.

It's a very tough call and must be handled on a case by case basis. Art is subjective after all.

@ptree, if you take a jpeg photo and reduce it in size AND auto color reduce it then it is guilty of all mentioned above. This shows another example by kaltsu:
 






Edited by jalonso - 28 March 2008 at 6:13am

Metaru and Saboteur, not exactly what I was talking about.

I can only think of two examples off the top of my head.
1: Someone too the old man from Zelda

And made him 5 times normal zoom and gave him a cane and a black outline.

2: Old flamy (flameruler13) took a bunch of NES sprites and made them iso.

Neither are rips, per se, and both were based on pixelart.

I know there's a few other examples out there, but all of that stuff has already been deleted, and I can't remember any others at the moment...

I'm with BOB here.

If the same DBZ art would be posted at Pixelation, his ass would be banned or at least the thread deleted together with a strike.

You have a moderated gallery where you feel good enough to punish some people for not having the right art skills by rejecting their art, but you let these non-creators receive the fame they don't deserve? The DBZ piece is now in the weekly showcase for heaven's sake. It doesn't even belong under my boot...

The thing is simple: if you're tracing an existing image(yours or not) NOTE/MENTION/POST IT. failing at this means you're taking all the credit for the piece, wich can be ridiculous for things like the above mentioned Dragon Ball picture(turning you into an instant n00b).

 We have Varock Shade, who has been reproducing two awesome portraits based on photos of people he know, where the main point is the development of technique.

I have been accused of tracing once too. how to make things clear? just simple post a WIP animation or keep in mind to save one when you know an imagen has a high/close use of references. even people who has some time around(and has build a well know reputation/credibility) is not free from being suspicious and/or reported by someone else. we're all the same, after all.

in the end, more than asking for permission (wich in some cases is simple imposible -Mr Toriyama, Can I trace your image?-) is as simple as being humble and give the proper credit. and that's all.

Oh yeah, I made something about the Color Reduction Edits too.


P.S:

that's because the rating system is user-based, not mod-based. most users tend to be n00bs who drool for anything shinny, so the system is very suceptible of being easily abused(like making 30 accounts to put your crap up there)

we are man/woman of honor.


Edited by Metaru - 28 March 2008 at 10:13am

why, exactly?
should every colored lineart be removed too?
It seems the same thing to me and if one kind is allowed then the other is too.
Actually, with the trace you have to create the lineart (from the ref) whereas in the lineart you did nothing at all : /


Edited by jalonso - 28 March 2008 at 11:32am

Gil you and I are gonna have to agree to disagree.
I will however make a list of certain gallery pixelart pieces for you to yay or nay for me...if you can.

*if you can = without contradicting yourself.
*** start with these
http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/12082.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/12900.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/14760.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/8345.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/16752.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/15375.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/28145.htm

I could go on and on.


Edited by jalonso - 28 March 2008 at 1:09pm

Jal, The YES/NO voting system is user based. as it user based, multiple critaria are used to judge a pice. some (like you) focus only in technique. some (like me) focus on either technique, concept, and general creativity and/or presentation. and others just don't care and just voted based on appealing. its all about being arbitrary.

for me, that little thing was fine, even when I voted NO. why? because I'm not really fond of DBZ.

Tarro, the Original Non-Original character.

C'mon! its not always about being original. these two were made with a focus in technique. or else, no one here (or anywhere)could claim to be original(we all know why)

There's no rule or regulation about how people should/must vote. if you just like it, vote yes, and its completly valid. if you took your time, check the color count, study its reference, study the style, zoom to find any posible flaws in technique, etc. and consider it not good enough for the gallery, then vote NO, and its completly valid too.

why? because its my selfish shallow opinion? the criteria I use on the queque has nothing to do with this topic point, wich is simply the difference between Rips and Traces. looking down others opinion isn't the best way to argue, I must say. neither taking this as a personal crusade.

Again, the point of this thread I believe is purely Educational.

(as for Jaeden, why not asking her directly, instead of ranting here? I'm sure she'll gladly give her references... yet she may not look you very well for asking photos of her husband :/)

Since this topic has turned into a philosophical debate I guess I'll drop in my two cents.

Isn't the majority of art copy/tracing? I mean, an artist looks at a landscape, a person, an object and copies that onto a canvas be it digital or traditional. Everything is already there, it simply has to make the transition from the artist's eyes, through the hands, and onto the canvas.

In my humble opinion, art is about learning, about growing, about expressing the artist's feelings. So what's more important at this point in the debate? The ends? Or the means?

Like I said, since this topic got derailed from it's original purpose of what's acceptable in the gallery and into a debate of artistic differences and styles.

I just want to protect the pixel art trade. Whenever a guy puts a "made in MSPaint" video online, he disgraces our art form, and it is our job to raise awareness of what pixel art is really about.

When you let artist draw pixels over DBZ art and submit it to the gallery, you're effectively destroying your own trade. There is nothing pixel art about it, except maybe for a few techniques used.

are you sure this is not a personal crusade? that really sounds like a William Wallace wannabe.

so i have a question, i'm working on a new technique for 1 bit images, what are your opinions in this?

I take a photo, put it as the base layer in PS.
On top of that i put several layers with dithers of foreground(FG) and background(BG) color. and on top of that another photoref for switching on and off regularly

for instance:

Photo ref
100%FG
75% FG    25% BG
50% FG    50% BG
25% FG    75% BG
100% BG
Photo ref

then i apply a layer mask to all these layers (except 100%BG.
then i build up layer by layer, drawing the darkest areas, then over that the lighter, and over that the lightest.

I then have a rough pixelized version of my photo, which i manually clean up.

for instance




What are your opinions on this? Please bear in mind that the lowest image is still heavily WIP, and the only parts which should possibly be considered finished are the door handle and bar area to the top left of it.

not quite, this is colourreduced:


a lot more noise on the walls and bars, no sheen on the lamp and no reflection of the door closer.

Edited by snader - 02 October 2009 at 2:30pm