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Zizka (Level 5 Sniper) at 4/23/2014 3:55:00 PM

Good for you!!  

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/23/2014 3:44:00 PM


If anyone ever wanted to pester me about something, now is a good time. I'm high as a cloud right now, and not on drugs, but genuine human emotions. Had a nice loooooooong big chat with my brother, got some stuff off my chest that I've been represing for years, on top of that came home and exchanged a few words with a certain special someone.

My mental barricades are titanium solid right now. Do your worst.

DatMuffinMan (Level 4 Mercenary) at 4/23/2014 1:03:00 PM

lol, admin account user/pass on my school's macs was student/student. 

jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) at 4/23/2014 12:57:00 PM

Green. I forgot where the submit quote is

Today's gem I want to add, or you can submit if you like for me:

No edit, man :) Every pixel is crucial. - Petruszka

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/23/2014 10:44:00 AM

yay, just posted new pixel that I did for an article I wrote for Munsell.com

Bitslap (Level 5 Assistant Manager) at 4/23/2014 8:35:00 AM

Hejsan grabbar o flickor!

inphy (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/23/2014 8:17:00 AM

mitä kuuluu kukkuluuruu

jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) at 4/23/2014 8:09:00 AM

hei, hei, hei.

tuaarita (Level 4 Mercenary) at 4/23/2014 8:02:00 AM

hey guys

ADrawingMan (Level 8 Shodan) at 4/23/2014 7:51:00 AM

Then just reinstall the pen, duh.

jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) at 4/23/2014 7:41:00 AM

The case of the pen or the chip inside of it.
Its possible I have spare parts. Post a pic link and actual model #

cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/23/2014 7:40:00 AM

No, the pen is physically broken.

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/23/2014 7:38:00 AM

have you try uninstalling it and reinstalling?

jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) at 4/23/2014 5:53:00 AM

cure, you can just buy a replacement pen from Wacom or maybe even ebay to hold you over? If its the tablet that has the problem then forget it. I live off my Intous but do have a bamboo which is perfectly fine for pixelling but that's about $90 so $60 for pen if tablet is fine might be worth it.

ADrawingMan (Level 8 Shodan) at 4/23/2014 5:38:00 AM

I think he's one of the chaps who's working on owlboy, or at least he works in D-Pad Studios.

Zizka (Level 5 Sniper) at 4/23/2014 5:22:00 AM

Does anyone know if snake works as a professional artist? If so, in which game did he contribute?

RAV (Level 1 Rookie) at 4/22/2014 10:34:00 PM

However, it is not about dispelling emotion. It is about listening. into yourself. and to others. Just listening for a while. Just being there. the moment. watching it. feeling it. unexplained, unsolved, unjudged. uncherished. unprovoked. undenied. unmotivated. undeluted. just it. and the other. and you. The compassion of someone being there for you, for no other reason than that you are there, and you'd like someone to share that moment, without being you. That you are worthwhile. You the person. of love. And that someone reminds you of that when everything else had you forget it. And that someone waits for you, for when you are ready to move on and listen to others yourself; when you are ready to feel love again, for the world, and be loved, first of all by yourself. and leading your life actively, for a doing based on goodwill hope and kind understanding. Being a companion guide towards this is that compassion.

cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/22/2014 10:12:00 PM

So my intuos4 pen is kaputt. Is there a cheaper alternative than buying a new Wacom pen for 60+ bucks? i don't even need fancy features, I just use it for pixelling right now.

RAV (Level 1 Rookie) at 4/22/2014 7:49:00 PM

There is another thing noteworthy about Buddhist compassion: They don't understand this as identifying yourself with the suffering of others, they do not share into the emotional distress, they don't immerse themselves in negativity, which makes yourself part of the problem in a downward spiral / vicious cycle. It is not about rationalizing misery. What they rather understand it like is loving care. Fostering the good in another, instead of brooding bad. Well meaning love. A reminder of what remains good in your heart. That you gift others a smile and a heads-up, and turn their view on the good and simple matters of life, instead of becoming the champion of their depression lost in darkness. That you try to help others make the best of themselves, not by telling them what to do, but by pointing them in the direction of love, with practicing attentiveness on the now and here and themselves, not future or past and everywhere else. That you try get the best out of them, with expectations and solutions that are achievable and humane. That you love watching them lead a better life, and find peace in themselves and with the world. The attempt to stop involving yourself with why the world is bad. The most naive form of love imaginable. Which is more realistic than the naive motives of conflict ever be.

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/22/2014 6:48:00 PM

it's so amazing how much history everyone has. I was thinking about what makes a person interesting- the experiences that shape people. It's just amazing the depth that is there, but often people close themselves up (at least that's what I notice)..

tanuki (Level 8 Rear Admiral) at 4/22/2014 6:41:00 PM

Hidden in Old Paintings, A Clue to Past Climate [Photo Essay] from Scientific American.

Apparently the more pollution is in the air, the redder sunsets will be. Looking back through the past couple hundred years of art history there's both a general trend to see redder sunsets in art (thanks a lot, industrial revolution) and spikes after major volcanic eruptions. So, artists have been unknowingly creating a visual record of increases in pollution.

CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/22/2014 1:42:00 PM

That's really interesting, cure. Did not know that. Will have to look into buddhism more. They seem to have some very interesting ideas that are entirely compatible with many kinds of belief system or lack thereof.

cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/22/2014 1:35:00 PM

I think compassion and pity are fundamentally different. Buddhism describes them as "near enemies". One is true empathy, the other creates distance between self and other and is more focused on personal feelings of guilt. I think the idea of near enemies is insightful into how nuanced our motives can be.

king_bobston (Level 2 Dealer) at 4/22/2014 1:23:00 PM

Compassion and pity could be seen as the same just with different magnitudes. Or not, depending on the individual interpretation. I mean, where's the line? What I perceive as pity might be what you perceive as compassion. Would that make one of us wrong?

I think I'll end it here. I do think you know what I'm trying to say and I do think I get what you mean. That makes further "discussion" kind of cosmetic. Except you think there's still something to add.

Also from my experience, children are more selfish (while often being surprisingly honest about it) while it better "hides" in adults. Althrough you can discuss wether all actions oneself does are selfish.

Also also I remember watching a short docu about the ego and that childhood memories mostly "start" from where the ego developes. Because remembering that something happens to you is easier than remembering that something just happened.

There's also some cool and very simple test they can do with children to determine wether the ego has developed or not. They hide something while both, the child and another participiant is there. Then the other participiant leaves. The object will be hidden somewhere else with the child observing where it goes. Then the child has to guess where the other participiant will search. Childs that have developed the ego know that the other participiant will search where it was hidden before but children without developed ego assume that the participiant knows the same as him- or herself and thus thinks that the other knows the new hideout. I know it's only slightly related but still cool, imo.

Ok, I'll shut up now...

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/22/2014 1:06:00 PM

I like to think of it as similar to tuning an instrument.. Or an exercise in harmonic resonance.

jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) at 4/22/2014 12:45:00 PM


cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/22/2014 12:43:00 PM

Where egoic thought begins and ends is not something that is immediately obvious. It manifests itself in varying degrees, and even disguises itself virtue. There is a fine line between compassion and pity, for instance. And I'll reiterate that I think selfishness is absolutely necessary for learning how to survive, but there is a point relatively early in our lives where it has taught us all it has to teach, but the ego often continues to grow rather than diminish.

inphy (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/22/2014 12:39:00 PM

This is one of those word/concept redefinition games again, isn't it. ;)

king_bobston (Level 2 Dealer) at 4/22/2014 12:31:00 PM

Does self-preservation include the mental health oneself? Because if so, that would quite broaden the complexion of the subject. Even something as self-preservation without the mental attribute is something with an incredible scope of interpretations. Especially in this day and age. And where does pride or greed start and end? Is feeling accomplished about something already pride? Doesn't that have a root in something related to our survival? And greed? Does "wanting" something equal greed? Doesn't that come from something, too?

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/22/2014 12:28:00 PM

Makes sense, RAV.

As to me saying rocks are selfish, I basically am applying the concept, not the human behavior characteristics obviously.

You can think of selfishness as being only a human quality, animal, or quality of consciousness, but that's very selfish to say that (not that this is wrong). :) How do you draw the line? Everything has to be interpreted and related with what you know, and the closest thing you know is your self- your own existence. At least it is for me, I don't know about everyone else..

If I compare myself to something that isn't me, and find a similarity there.. I think that is less selfish. If I look at something and say that it isn't me, that is more selfish because I've created more distinction for me.

inphy (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/22/2014 12:05:00 PM

Selfishness kind of implies a consciousness though, whereas strong nuclear interaction and such are forces that just are without motive, without reason, and without preference.

cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/22/2014 12:02:00 PM

I'll have to disagree with you about the rocks. As for self-preservation in animals (including humans), I think that's healthy. The 'self' being preserved here is the flesh and blood animal, a vessel of genetic information. That is why the concept of self developed, but the concept extends beyond natural, healthy boundaries. That's where the egoic self comes in, the one that people continually create a narrative for and is subject to pride, greed, etc.

RAV (Level 1 Rookie) at 4/22/2014 11:56:00 AM

That is what it comes down to. The other side is evil because it acts in a way you think is not in your own interest. And you're good because your needs are in everyone's interest. And their needs are not important anyway. They are just being selfish. Contrary to you.

And in elaborating and fortifying upon that, irreconcilably, you conveniently distract from the core of what defines good, as in selflessness: the question at heart, what are you willing to endure, what are you willing to suffer, what will you sacrifice, what can you tolerate, so that others have it better, or at least not that bad. Recognizing the pain of others over your own. But really, who wants that. It's been enough for us, hasn't it. We deserve better, don't we. Everyone does, according to your own idea of what's good for you. And when you point at the worst of threatening evil, it is especially easy to portray your excessive self-interest as good.

In the end what's really going on is, we all survive by selfish needs that contribute to evil in the world. Good really means nothing else than trying to minimize your bad. And even so, the contention will never subside, because everyone is sensitive to another kind of bad, everyone does not recognize needs other than the own, and everyone is full of mistakes. There is no benign goodwill to persons, no mutual understanding, just the realization that the world is not good enough, and someone, anyone, has to answer for it.

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/22/2014 11:40:00 AM

I think anything that purely exists has some form of selfishness- the preference to be its self, no matter the reason or cause, it just is. A rock or stone has a level of selfishness, the energy to maintain whatever it is. If it didn't have it, it wouldn't be what it is.. So selfishness, is basically every thing in my opinion- anything that maintains a level of order or propagation/continuation of its design.

king_bobston (Level 2 Dealer) at 4/22/2014 11:06:00 AM

I find the devision in good/evil quite limited to begin with. Also what equates as selfishness? We all have some image of what it is (I assume) and it probably overlaps to en extend but where does it start and where does it end? Is not sacrificing yourself to a hungry animal considered selfish?

nvision (Level 4 Team Leader) at 4/22/2014 10:16:00 AM

The Jötnar make things horrible for us Canucks every winter...so much snow.  I'm 6'6" and my driveway snow banks were at eye-level this year.

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/22/2014 10:09:00 AM

On a slightly more serious note the Norse, the Olympians, and other old world deities are far more identifiable than the Wizard of Oz and his book of propaganda.

Also this.

cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/22/2014 9:35:00 AM

How could I see any frost giants if I don't live in Jötunheimr? I'll bet the place is still crawling with them, thanks a lot Odin.

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/22/2014 9:31:00 AM

If you're gonna follow a religion, go with the one that gets shit done.

Also I never watched/read/played Game of Thrones.

cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/22/2014 9:14:00 AM

If we can equate sin with evil, then Genesis explains how selfish motive leads to man's expulsion from paradise and the introduction of suffering into the world. Understood allegorically, it is an explanation that evil exists because the will of God is obstructed by our own hubris and self-will. Buddhism offers a comparable explanation of desire as the root of suffering. Selfishness is part of human nature- babies are the most selfish humans on the planet. It's been said that part of the reason newborns cry so frequently is to annoy the mother so much that she doesn't have the time to conceive a competitor for resources. Selfishness is a necessary survival instinct at this age, but it's something we should grow out of (and don't.) 

king_bobston (Level 2 Dealer) at 4/22/2014 9:13:00 AM

I understand Epicurus's sentence "Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God."  more along the lines of "when God's interest are so different then ours then why should we praise him?". Being impressed by someone is different then worshipping someone as god and being able to do cool shit isn't equal to being omnipotent. Kidney stones or not.

But I'm not an Epicurus expert and neither am I really interested in the other parts of the debate. Just saying.

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/22/2014 9:05:00 AM

people tearing the world apart for answers, leaving no stone unturned. human conditions, driving men to take advantage of others so that they can fill whatever void their mind believes it sees. What an unusual world this is. I suppose things can't be created without breaking stuff apart. Everything must be fed. Everything is digested.. What a way to suffer, knowing you're being consumed by something inescapable. Everyone trying to prove they're worth savoring. Perplexing thoughts I struggle with..

DawnBringer (Level 10 Maniac) at 4/22/2014 8:53:00 AM

Logical and argumentative fallacies - study them you should.

CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/22/2014 8:33:00 AM

The Epicurean paradox is a load of drivel, repeated ad nauseum by people with no interest in philosophy or religion for millennia. A twelve-year-old could see the flaws in the argument with a few minutes of education, and the only thing that has kept it alive for these many years is the fact that it's catchy. I mean, let's apply the silly argument to Thor, the norse God of Lightning. "Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God." Because he's an immortal who rides the sky on a chariot, shoots fucking lightning bolts at mortals and kills them with a flying hammer that can hit any mortal from an infinite range, even levelling mountains on its way, and return to its wielder. That's why he's a god. If you're not impressed, mr. Epicurus, then you should have picked a more glorious death than kidney stones, my friend.

And as for your objection, it makes no sense either. If people have some form of evil in them, it is not a given that everyone is aware of it, or that they understand the nature of such evil. Nor is it a given that they will act according to their evil nature. Nor is it known which of the angels, if any, and if they did exist, were created as evil, or partially evil. God has not made it known whether he designed any creature to be good or evil, so it is not a known fact. Men are not omniscient. Indeed, the question of whether men are, by nature, good, evil or both, has been a matter of debate among christians for centuries. And the same applies to the world around us, which is regarded as everything from God's heavenly gift to humanity, to some sinful hell we must endure to reach heaven. There is no consensus.

At this point, I'll step down from this silly debate. My apologies for filling up the CB. Let's discuss more important things, such as the senseless sex and violence in Game of Thrones corrupting our children.

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/22/2014 7:48:00 AM


And as for evil.

king_bobston (Level 2 Dealer) at 4/22/2014 12:43:00 AM

"I always have game ideas and then years after I think of them, I see a game that has been made that has the same idea I had.."

I know what you mean. I blame the NSA.

Helm (Level 5 Detective) at 4/21/2014 11:41:00 PM

The problem of evil in Christianity is such that whole faiths have sprung up to answer it, like a hundred variations of Gnostics.

jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) at 4/21/2014 7:22:00 PM


CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/21/2014 5:27:00 PM

@cure: I'm not familiar with all the things you mention, but for the most part I agree with your general message. 'Fan fiction' is obviously a tongue-in-cheek, derogatory name for something as profound and spiritual as this, but I do have to say that the resemblance is there. A lot of fan fiction comes out of different fantasy / sci-fi universes where certain lore / fluff is just a superficial backdrop to the actual game or story. So it's up to the fans to pick up tiny clues here and there to try to make sense of the actual setting, the history and the living world in the background. Whether you're trying to gather information about the Jedi order in Star Wars, the different wizards in the LotR universe, the Inquisition in the Warhammer 40,000 universe or the Advocacy in Star Citizen, the method of information gathering and extrapolation is roughly the same. It would be different if writings on angelology were the result of something else entirely, like... visions and hallucinations, use of drugs and meditation to reach "higher levels" of consciousness in order to gather information. But for scholars like Thomas Aquinas, the approach is... well, scholarly. It seems fairly straight forward. Mundane. Not mystical at all. Even though the topic is profound.

CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/21/2014 5:11:00 PM

@greenraven: You're just throwing quotes at me with no counter arguments, so... all I can say is that I'm aware of that type of rhetoric, but you have to make up your mind of where to go from there. What does that mean? Actually, I see nothing in the quotes you provided that contradicts what I was already saying. If anything, the second quote supports my argument as the passive form "was found in you" suggests that he always acted righteous, untill his unrighteousness (from creation) was finally revealed.

The bible doesn't really give any good answers to the problem of evil. It doesn't explain where evil comes from or why there is evil. It needs to be interpreted.

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/21/2014 4:52:00 PM

You can do whichever one first, but I think if you finish first what you're least familiar with, you'll have better odds at finishing it all because the rest becomes second nature to you. I can't count the times I've been programming stuff and end up frustrated and losing motivation to continue. With my art, on the other hand, it's not a matter of how am I going to do this, but rather why am I doing this..

If I work with the hardest aspect first, I am forced to scale everything else depending upon how I am able to handle it. In other words- do what you're capable of. no point imagining more than that if you haven't proven you can handle more yet.

I've tried doing both in the past, but I don't find it promotes progress because they require different frame of minds, and if you're constantly switching back and forth, there's opportunity to lose focus, etc.

That's what I'm discovering for me anyways.

SharpKing (Level 1 Rookie) at 4/21/2014 4:17:00 PM

I find it a bit funny, since I am a programmer who is trying to learn art.  I feel like I want to create some art assets first before I start coding.  But really you should be able to do either first, if you are creating a game or any type of programming you need to map it out and plan before you write 1 line of code.  Otherwise things can get out of control pretty easily.  You might end up realizing after tons of hours coding that what you wrote won't even work for your newly evolved desired output.

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/21/2014 3:30:00 PM

I have a bunch of tiles in the backburner for one of my game ideas. I realized though that I shouldn't focus on art when developing my own game. It's better for me to focus solely on code before being commited to art because depending upon how the game functions will determine what I ought to include or exclude in regards to art. I have most of my game that I was working on completed, or at least it is well rounded out, but there's a lot of stuff that can be polished to make it feel more like a game, and once that is done, I'll go full out with graphics. In other words, if you're an artist who is developing a game yourself- do all of the programming first before any of the art, that way if you fail at programming it, you won't have wasted time making art.

Mr.Fahrenheit (Level 5 Killer Klown) at 4/21/2014 2:56:00 PM

I'd love to see an AlexHW game!  Maybe one with those super sexy nature tiles in you gallery. 

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/21/2014 2:38:00 PM

Thanks ellie-is.
inphy, I had been doing it all on my own. Before I began learning pixel-art I was already learning to program stuff. It's one of my hobbies but I don't have much to show for it. I've always wanted to make my own game and feel weird that I haven't accomplished that sort of thing in all these years. I've worked on other people's games, but I've never completed my own. I always have game ideas and then years after I think of them, I see a game that has been made that has the same idea I had.. It's like i'm connected to some universal creative mind.. but I don't have the funds to unleash it all in a timely manner. :P

inphy (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/21/2014 1:37:00 PM

Sounds cool, are you developing your game on your own or do you have help?

ellie-is (Level 8 Cannibal) at 4/21/2014 1:35:00 PM

That's all great! I wish you the best of luck c:

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/21/2014 12:12:00 PM

Someone asked me to write an article about something, and create some art for it, so I'll probably post the art when the article is up. It's not much though.. I've just been doing freelance for people and haven't had much time to create my own art. I had been working on my own video game a couple months ago, but had to shift gears to earn some money. Once I have more time I'll revisit that, and create more stuff in general.. Planning to rebuild my website.. I have an invention I want to build.. Also some other stuff I want to do.. Anyways.. hopefully things will calm down and I'll be more at ease to experiment with those things..

ellie-is (Level 8 Cannibal) at 4/21/2014 11:31:00 AM

In other news, when are you going to make/post some new art for us to see? :3

nvision (Level 4 Team Leader) at 4/21/2014 11:29:00 AM

Humanity really is nothing but a collection of great storytellers.  The fact that some stories persevere over millenia, even if evolved or mutated, speaks of the strength of the themes in those stories.  Our civilizations rise and fall, out buildings crumble, our technonolgy becomes ever more rapidly obsolete, but we keep telling, and living, stories.

Orthodoxy of any strain, especially based on texts laden with metaphor and tailored to vastly different socio-political climates, is another issue.  However, I think there is great value and knowledge to be gained from mining those stories that have stood the test of time.  I want to go pixel some cannabalistic Nephilim, now.

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/21/2014 11:02:00 AM

This type of conversation will lead exactly where these conversations of the past lead.. There's no point discussing these things because everyone has their own beliefs, and everyone references whatever the hell they want to because that somehow makes them believe more strongly. People need to learn to just let go of things and stop perpetuating stories of the past that have become so far from what they originally were designed for. When you write something, you're first and foremost are writing for yourself, and then secondly, it might be read by someone else. Stories of the past were meant for the writers, and perhaps their neighbors. Not for people thousands of years later. Talk about how disconnected people these days are- having to relate with such very old texts.. I don't understand what the desire is in that.

cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/21/2014 10:20:00 AM

Again, the Lucifer verse in Isaiah is referring to a historical king of Babylon. The verses you quoted from Ezekiel are explicitly directed at the king of Tyre.

Though even if these verses did refer to satan or his supposed fall from grace, they just seem to be warnings against hubris.

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/21/2014 10:17:00 AM

"Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor."

"You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you."

inphy, I think I got sidetracked, mah bad. XD

CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/21/2014 10:00:00 AM

Re: Problem of evil
Well, first of all, I don't like the idea that unless the intentions of an infinitely old, infinitely wise and infinitely powerful creature makes sense to an adolescent talking monkey (shout out to my homie, Gabriel), then we have to change our view of those intentions. No. Assuming God exists, we have a slim chance of trying to understand God's intentions. What's left for us to do is to judge those actions according to our own understanding of ethics.

Furthermore, the bible basically teaches that sometimes, it's alright to do a bad thing (e.g. kill someone) in order to accomplish something good. And this principle never applied more to anyone, than to God, who is happily carrying out genocide left, right and center, if it accomplishes something good. If making Lucifer a traitor is a bad thing, who's to say it's beneath God to do something like that?

A product is only defective if its flaw was unintentional.

inphy (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/21/2014 9:59:00 AM

Ok, but I'm not sure what your point is. I mentioned a game about Book of Enoch since the discussion revolved around Book of Enoch, and then.. ?

AlexHW (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/21/2014 9:56:00 AM

I don't understand how people on twitter can post so often. It makes me feel like I have nothing going on. 

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/21/2014 9:44:00 AM

I actually know about El Shaddai. :P

But I'm just saying that in general lots of games play out bible stories.  Lets try another example then. Bible Adventures would be too obvious.

cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/21/2014 9:41:00 AM

The identity of the Nephilim is pretty dubious as we don't have a lot of early information on them other than a passing reference in Genesis. I wouldn't use the term "fan fiction" to describe angelology, it's more useful to see it as an evolving concept with influences from various other religions and cultures (like Zorastrianism). For instance, compare cherubs to the Assyrian shedu, both were originally storm deities. It's possible angels are demoted gods- member of the "sons of El", Yahweh's divine council. Once readers forget the origin and development, and the contemporary context of the verses, they begin to conflate differnt concepts and events to form a more complex narrative (e.g. Cherubs+ fall of Lucifer + Satan + etc).

Zeratanus (Level 4 Deputy) at 4/21/2014 9:36:00 AM

 ALBJHALHBHAHFAJWOE all this discussion is doing for me is reminding me that I STILL have not finished revising my angel piece. uuuuuuuggggh I'mma do that sometime soon (Nobody tell me how long ago that Angels/Demons contest actually was. My head might break~)

inphy (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/21/2014 9:31:00 AM

El Shaddai is a bit different than a Chrono Trigger fan theory, which is a world I don't even really want to entertain. :)

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/21/2014 9:24:00 AM

You said that Lucifer was made that way. Made to rebel ahead of time. It just makes no sense. Why would anyone make a defective product knowing it's going to be defective by design?

inphy, LOTS of things were made into a game. XD

inphy (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/21/2014 9:07:00 AM

As a curious aside, out of all the things to turn into a game, Book of Enoch was adapted into an action game - El Shaddai: Ascension of the Metatron. It's actually a decent game, great soundtrack and absolute amazing visuals. It's really something worth seeing, if nothing else.

A trailer thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv8Uy4GWLZo

CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/21/2014 9:06:00 AM

Please elaborate, greenraven. We're already knee-deep by now 

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/21/2014 9:03:00 AM

Enoch is basically the girls gon wilde portion of the book of fairytales. XD

And Nephilim were part of my counter argument towards CELS last night. It's a logic trap paradox if they were "created to be that way".

CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/21/2014 8:59:00 AM

All I've read about the angels makes me think that more and more people started going "Damn, these angel dudes are pretty damn cool!" and then started writing more stuff about them, organising them into different orders, spheres, etc.

Maybe some of the hebrew texts from jewish tradition have something more... tangible and real. But Thomas Aquinas' work on angels reads almost like fan fiction to me. And a lot of what I've read about nephilim reads the same, although I haven't read as much scholarly work on that subject.

PS: I actually have a WIP pixel art piece on my computer, based on Thomas Aquinas' description of the angels, inspired by this Mrmo Tarius piece. Maybe I'll finish it one day.

cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/21/2014 8:47:00 AM

Definitely, I always found the Nephilim to be one of the more interesting (and mysterious) beings in the OT. Plus angelology is so bizarre and interesting (like Ezekiel's vision, dude was tripping hard). I've not read the Book of Enoch but will have to do so soon, thanks for the tip.

nvision (Level 4 Team Leader) at 4/21/2014 8:02:00 AM

Yay!  Theological scholastics make my heart happy 

It's a shame the Book of Enoch wasn't canonised into the Tanakh, as it's one of the coolest of the original Hebrew texts...

ellie-is (Level 8 Cannibal) at 4/21/2014 7:43:00 AM

I was talking about how posting too many comments or sending too many messages stops you from being able to do more of it.

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/21/2014 7:35:00 AM

It's a little bit of both. Just like posting youtube videos in the chat.

dogmeat (Level 1 Gangster) at 4/21/2014 6:52:00 AM

I thought images in chat were a bug/glitch and not an admin thing :D

ellie-is (Level 8 Cannibal) at 4/21/2014 6:33:00 AM

...that restriction should probably be removed from admins :P

king_bobston (Level 2 Dealer) at 4/21/2014 12:55:00 AM


jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) at 4/20/2014 7:28:00 PM

I have beenin PM mode with many and I'm locked out of PJ.

STOP! the images...

...even tho they are all great.

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/20/2014 7:25:00 PM

jal how do you not have a gif folder in this day and age? You poor thing, let me donate something from my private stash.

CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/20/2014 7:17:00 PM

@greenraven: Don't debate Lucifer with a guy who made a 1000 frame pixel art animation about the war in heaven using MS Paint. I can school some of the most hardcore self mutilators on that subject. 

@cure: shit just got real.

ellie-is (Level 8 Cannibal) at 4/20/2014 7:16:00 PM

Huh. Okay, there we go.

lucas_irineu (Level 8 Cannibal) at 4/20/2014 7:13:00 PM

I knew that! Yay :D

cure (Level 10 Capo) at 4/20/2014 7:12:00 PM

The more you know: Lucifer and Satan weren't originally the same figure.

Satan just means "to oppose", and is used to describe some mortals in the Old Testament. It is also applied to the adversarial figure in Job (ha-satan, the accuser), who is a member of Yahweh's divine council (the sons of El) and basically plays the role of the prosecutor. In the Hebrew bible, he is not the personfication of evil, and it isn't until the Second Temple period (around the time the New Testament was written) that Satan becomes conflated with Lucifer (as well as the serpent in Genesis.)

The fall of Lucifer is a story borrowed from Caananite mythology (Lucifer=Venus=Athtar, an astral deity who briefly holds Baal's throne before descending to earth). It is used in Isaiah to illustrate the fall of a historical Babylonian ruler.

So basically both figures tie into Judaism's (pre-)history as a polytheistic Caananite religion. Which is pretty interesting imo.

RAV (Level 1 Rookie) at 4/20/2014 7:05:00 PM

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/20/2014 7:01:00 PM

I'd rather not have a religion debate. But I can go for a quickie if you really want. What one thing do you want to discuss, cuz we're not talking about everything as a whole. XD

CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/20/2014 6:59:00 PM


Mandrill (Level 5 Assistant Manager) at 4/20/2014 6:57:00 PM


Ahaha, a good one

@ jal

That's 350mb worth of gifs. I can upload it for you tomorrow if you want to have the stuff


I need some sleep, nighty night.

CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/20/2014 6:41:00 PM

"Also don't debate Lucifer with a guy the carved pentragrams in his own skin with knives. I can school some of the hardcore bible thumpers on that subject. XD"

Well, I didn't cut myself, but I did study religion. I'm always eager to be schooled. Go on. 

Mandrill: 150. The stuff in the middle is always the best.

jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) at 4/20/2014 6:37:00 PM

Man is that jazz hands gif great. I want a folder full on those gifs but never save them :(

Mandrill (Level 5 Assistant Manager) at 4/20/2014 6:31:00 PM

No worries, I remember those nights.

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/20/2014 6:27:00 PM

*leans in close and whispers* I rarely ever have underwear on. >=3

But see there is a line in the sand between "sick" and "evil".

I don't hide behind my schizophrenia as a shield. And on more than on occasion I had the urge to grab a knife and stab some because I got so paranoid. If and when the day comes that I lose control and end up killing someone I refuse to stand up in court and say "you can't blame me, I'm a schizophrenic." Everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions.

Also don't debate Lucifer with a guy the carved pentragrams in his own skin with knives. I can school some of the hardcore bible thumpers on that subject. XD


Mandrill, I'm sorry to hear that. But I can't hug my dad right now, what a coincidence that he's drunk and smells like dog piss.

Mandrill (Level 5 Assistant Manager) at 4/20/2014 6:14:00 PM

Hmm, my father died of his alcoholism when I was six.

Even if it sounds odd I live much better with the belief that he was responsible for what he did....

Now hug your dad for me, will ya?!



My gif folder has 300 pieces of pure internetz. Tell me a random number and I'll post it for you...  SFW only of course

CELS (Level 6 SWAT) at 4/20/2014 6:05:00 PM

The more I read about free will, and how our decisions are influenced by physical conditions we have no control over (e.g. hormones), the less I feel in control. Our society has drawn an artificial line, separating people who are "sick" and have no control of their actions (e.g. a mother becoming psychotic and killing her newborn) and people who are just evil and choose to do wrong, choose to ruin their lives, choose to be selfish, etc.

There's no line. We're all just acting according to our nature. The notion of free will, the notion that people make the wrong choice on purpose because they're bad or evil, is dangerous. Lucifer didn't choose to be a douchebag. God created Lucifer and made him a douchebag. Which makes God a douchebag. So you can't really blame God either.

Also, I'm not wearing pants.

Mandrill, we need more funny gifs over here. Stat!

greenraven (Level 9 Executioner) at 4/20/2014 5:46:00 PM

What do I get if I slip $9.99 down your pants?

You remind me of the eternal argument that me and my brother are having. He says that alcoholism is a disease and dad (and people like him) shouldn't be held responsible for his actions. I'm sorry but I just can't see that.

Ok, alcohol is a toxin it enters your system and screws with you, makes you want to have more of it. But so is food. I've had an eating disorder for a good chunk of my life. At times I would get a literally insatiable hunger, I would be completely full on the verge of puking and I would continue to stuff food in my mouth. And I'm not talking about little bites here. Whole potatoes, loafs of bread, pound after pound of meat, gallons upon gallons of drinks, gone in mere minutes. I would be sick and nauseous and I would still continue shoving food in my mouth.

I chose to make myself stop, to have self control and willpower. Alcoholism and drugs aren't all that different. Everyone has free will and everyone has willpower.

Mandrill (Level 5 Assistant Manager) at 4/20/2014 5:13:00 PM

The only proper way to move if you just have two limbs. Unless you want to strap on those crazy wheels... pinky demon style.

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